Scriptures Calvinists must deal with, continued...

[Skandelon]

Yes, but you have already demonstrated that you do not get some things about Scriptural language that are essential to understanding the Scriptures correctly.

Let's compare for all those who are reading along:

I believe on must humble himself : the scripture says, "humble yourself"

You believe on must be effectually humbled by God : The scripture never says that God must effectually humble a man.

So, point for my system.

Anthropomorphic language for example.

I have affirmed and explained my belief of anthropomorphic language. I just don't dismiss the clear meaning of the entirety of the text under the guise of anthropomorphism. So, again, let's compare for those following along:

I believe God makes choices : The bible says, "God chooses"

Luke believe God doesn't make real choices because that would violate the concept of divine omniscience: The bible never says that his omniscience prevents him from making real choices.

So, another point for my system. That would be 2-0 for those keeping score.

Frankly that's a silly challenge.

I am a Calvinist and I wrote about it in the last post.

Again, for those following along:

I believe we can boast in understanding and know the Lord : the Bible actually says to "boast in understanding and knowing the Lord."

Calvinists say that we have no room for any boasting because God does absolutely everything in the process : the bible never says this.

3-0 for my system! :applause:

You're better than that.

Actually, according to your system of belief, I'm much much worse, so I'm giving myself another point.

4-0.

But the question is WHY? Why do we know the Lord and others do not?

Again, let's compare:

I believe the reason some don't know the Lord is only because they are unwilling, despite God's desire for them to come to faith and salvation : The bible says God desires for all to be saved and come to faith and but some are "unwilling." (Matt. 23:37; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Tim 2:4 etc)

You believe they don't know Him because God didn't choose them, something the bible doesn't teach.

5-0, my favor.

What about those who "accept" this is different from those who do not?

This question is a fallacy called "question begging," and I've explained that to you before. I can explain it again if you need me to. 6-0

In your system it is simply that they are BETTER. They are wiser and more humble.

The same is true of your system Luke. You believe God makes you better and I believe God makes us able to choose better. You can't avoiding that claim against your own system. At least in my system God is not to blame for those who were created to choose wrongly.

7-0, that is a skunk...

 

[Robert Snow]

Off topic a tad but I'm very proud of my brother who paid me a visit last night to inform me that he has switched his theology from his old indoctrinated Arminism to Calvinism. He is an IFB man and has been persuaded through fervent study of the Gospel that it is indeed biblical & true. My heart leapt upon hearing the good news. Praise God!:godisgood:

I certainly wouldn't celebrate one who has turned his back on the truth to embrace error. Too bad!

 

[Robert Snow]

Because that would be silly.

In my theology GOD is the one doing the making.

He'd have to congratulate GOD. Which sounds a whole lot like giving him glory- which would be fine with me!

In your theology God is an evil monster who makes people sin and then punishes them for it! Of course, the real God is merciful and wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth and never rejoices in sin. Nor does He make people sin to receive glory.

 

[DHK]

I certainly wouldn't celebrate one who has turned his back on the truth to embrace error. Too bad!

Neither would I. On the other hand, this thread (as well as others similar to it) have given me more than enough fodder to teach my adult Bible class, as we go through some of these related doctrines.

 

[quantumfaith]

I certainly wouldn't celebrate one who has turned his back on the truth to embrace error. Too bad!

:thumbsup:


One should celebrate the "new birth" of an individual rather than the acceptance or non-acceptance of ANY theological perspective.

 

[TomVols]

On the other hand, this thread (as well as others similar to it) have given me more than enough fodder to teach my adult Bible class

The only thing you'll find usable for sermons and Bible studies around here is how NOT to behave or believe :BangHead:

 

[TomVols]

:thumbsup:


One should celebrate the "new birth" of an individual rather than the acceptance or non-acceptance of ANY theological perspective.

Agreed. I want people to come to Christ more than I want them to come to Calvin.

 

[quantumfaith]

Agreed. I want people to come to Christ more than I want them to come to Calvin.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Or Arminius

 

[Jerome]

I'm very proud of my brother who paid me a visit last night to inform me that he has switched his theology from his old indoctrinated Arminism to Calvinism.

Didn't you say last year that

Calvinists can be saved....in fact my Brother, my minister, my wife & I as well as most of my family are Calvinists though you suggest we are cultists

My kid brother is a Fundamentalist Minister & he's named Mark also. There is a long line of preachers in my family (all Calvinists)

my brother who was a Fundimentalist wingnut pastor till he learned the ways of grace & is now studying latin to better understand the scriptures

 

[Calv1]

The other thread reached its limit and was closed.

Luke...



You have it completely wrong. It has nothing to do with certain people being "better". Its the lost who have the "I'm a good enough person, I think I'll be good enough to make it" mentality.

Calv1: You are missing this persons point. If salvation is not of the Lord alone, then there is synergy is salvation, and ultimately man is the final arbitor of who is saved, not God. Man makes himself the almighty, and God is helpless, the exact opposite of what scripture teachs.

The point is that without God's electing power, you would have to have some inherant property; Smarter, morally superior, etc. The bible is clear that we are all fallen, and "do evil from the womb".

So why are you saved? Because you happen by luck to be born where there is scriputure? Because you are smarter? More moral? Or did God choose you as the bible is overly clear on?

We who embrace Christ do so because we recognize our depravity and sinfullness. Christ died to pay the penalty for every sin ever commited, or will be commited.

Calv1: Why do you recognize it?

Gods saving gosple if justification through faith alone. NOT for just the "lucky ones" that God supposedly "elects", but rather for the "who soever wills"

Calv1: "Supposedly elects"? You may want to read your bible, election is clear throughout, you can ignore it, but it's still there!



As I understand "arminianism" it is what I just articulated, and NOT the erronious view that you articulated.

Calv1: Arminianism is just another form of synergism, just like every other religion in the world save biblical teaching.



It has nothing to do with being better. It has to do with recieving Gods mercy.

Calv1: Exactly, it has nothing to do with he who runs or wills, but on God who has mercy. Some only see their obedience, but don't see that their obedience is simply a symptom of what God has already done.



Yes. Luke, Christ is the one who said...





No. I came to Christ because I knew that I was an "undone" lost , wreched person. A sinner.

Calv1: Conviction only comes from God, not man. Then you are "Granted" repentence.



No, no no.

I came to Christ because I was wretched.



No. I came to Christ because I knew that I was wretched, and undone.



Because God gives every person who ever lives the opportunity to turn from sin, and pridefull self sufficientcy, and turn to Gods provision, found in Christ.

Calv1: Where in the world do you find that in your bible? Everyone is accountable to God, is supposed to repent, but as John 6 says, "You are UNABLE to come to me unless it is granted you by the Father".



How can a wreched man be better than others?



You are erecting a strawman.

Calv1: Have to put something here so this will post

 

[webdog]

Didn't you say last year that

Strange indeed. I hope he has more than one brother...or much of what he says will have to be taken with a grain of salt from here on out.

 

[Luke2427]

If you can't define what world Christ died for, how do you know that you are one of the elect? Please explain.

I know I am saved because of the evidences lined out in Scripture- NONE of which have ANYTHING at ALL to do with unlimited atonement.

I love the brethren, I have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit, I keep the commandments of Christ, etc...

If salvation is all of God,

The fact that you have to say such a thing is proof enough that you need to have an overhaul of your theology.

inasmuch as God even has to give the faith to the one believing, then how do you know God gave you faith to believe? Or was it your own faith all along? Please explain.

Faith is the gift of God.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Explain,
How when the Scriptures say: "Being justified by faith we have peace with God," you say that faith isn't our faith but God's faith simply because "salvation is all of God."

It is our faith that God gives us.

And give a good Biblical answer how you can know for sure that you are one of the elect.

Covered that at the top.


Now you tell me why some people go to heaven and others do not.

In your theology those who are better, if not morally at least mentally, go to heaven and the rest go to hell.

You are going to heaven because you were wiser than all those poor stupid souls that did not make the wise choice you made- the choice to accept Christ.

You are better than the billions who perish because you were more humble than them all. They were self-righteous and tried to get to heaven by their own works. NOT YOU! OH NO! You were not so stupid as they were. You were so much more wonderfully humble than all of them.

So you are better than BILLIONS of lost humans.

Now THAT is something to boast about!!!

Congratulations!

When you get to heaven I'm sure God will pat you on the back and say- You, DHK, are 1 in a billion. Congratulations on being so much wiser and humbler than those stupid arrogant people in hell. You are here because YOU chose wisely. You are here because YOU humbled yourself! Oh, what a great man you are!!!!"

 

[Luke2427]

Let's compare for all those who are reading along:

I believe on must humble himself : the scripture says, "humble yourself"

You believe on must be effectually humbled by God : The scripture never says that God must effectually humble a man.

So, point for my system.

Scripture also says, "Peter said much more to warn them. He urged, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

Using your wacko method of literal interpretation of EVERY word of Scripture then you can attribute your salvation to you SAVING YOURSELF!!

Of course, then again, you kind of do, don't you?

Point for my system not being man centered.:applause:

I have affirmed and explained my belief of anthropomorphic language. I just don't dismiss the clear meaning of the entirety of the text under the guise of anthropomorphism.

Nope, you have not.

You actually argued that God has a body!!!

So no, you don't even agree with classical Arminians on this issue. Even Arminians believe in anthropomorphic language and deny that God has a body. Unless you consider Finnis J. Dake a good representative of what you believe.

So, again, let's compare for those following along:

I believe God makes choices : The bible says, "God chooses"

Luke believe God doesn't make real choices because that would violate the concept of divine omniscience: The bible never says that his omniscience prevents him from making real choices.

The Bible says that God knows all things. You affirmed that God has always known all there is to ever know about everything.

Therefore, it is clear that language that speaks of him NOT KNOWING something or making choices is anthropomorphic.

So, another point for my system. That would be 2-0 for those keeping score.

You certainly aren't keeping it very well. Even educated Arminians would have to give you a zero so far.

Again, for those following along:

I believe we can boast in understanding and know the Lord : the Bible actually says to "boast in understanding and knowing the Lord."

The boasting is still ultimately directed to God who GAVE the knowledge.

You are LITERALLY abusing passages to influence impressionable people on BB to BOAST before God of their salvation!!

This is dangerous. I hope God will be merciful to those who are new to the faith or very shallow theologically and not let them follow you on these things.

Calvinists say that we have no room for any boasting because God does absolutely everything in the process : the bible never says this.

No Calvinist says that Christians can do NO boasting. But we only boast of that which GOD has done in us and for us and to us.

GOD FORBID THAT I SHOULD GLORY SAVE IN THE CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST! Galatians 6:14

Again, let's compare:

I believe the reason some don't know the Lord is only because they are unwilling, despite God's desire for them to come to faith and salvation : The bible says God desires for all to be saved and come to faith and but some are "unwilling." (Matt. 23:37; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Tim 2:4 etc)

So why are some unwilling and others willing?

You can give no answer here except that which ultimately says that you are better than the lost.

You are better because you are wiser and more humble.

Congratulations!

The same is true of your system Luke. You believe God makes you better

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!

NOW you finally scored an ACTUAL point instead of those you've been making up heretofore.

That's right. GOD makes us better. How many HUNDREDS of times does the Bible affirm this God honoring truth!

Your system has you making YOURSELF better! My HEAVENS man how horrific is the implications of your theology!

You LITERALLY, I mean LITERALLY believe that those who make themselves better than their fellows are the ones who go to heaven!!

No WONDER you argue for your right to BOAST before God.

Oh, how I hope your heart is better than your theology.

and I believe God makes us able to choose better. You can't avoiding that claim against your own system. At least in my system God is not to blame for those who were created to choose wrongly.

God is not to be blamed because he is GOD and who are YOU or ANY puny mortal to try to blame the Almighty.

If he sends me to hell right NOW and you with me just to SUIT him- who will stand before his throne and silence the cries of the seraphim to call him to account?

Thank God for his grace but it is HORRIFIC wickedness to presume he MUST extend it to ANYONE, much less EVERYONE!!

I do not understand why he chooses to give ANYONE grace and faith to receive it and seals them for heaven.

I do not understand how the mind of the Almighty works in his creating the wicked for damnation. But I trust his word and his wisdom which exceeds mine as far as the heavens are above the earth.

You must account for how you save yourself and how you think of yourself as BETTER than all those who perish.

You must account for what you are going to say to God one day. Will you say, "I am here because I am wiser and humbler than those billions of stupid arrogant souls in hell! REWARD ME! Yes, you did your part- but I did MINE as well. And between the two of us- ME and Jesus- we have got me here!!!"

 

[Calv1]

Scripture also says, "Peter said much more to warn them. He urged, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

Using your wacko method of literal interpretation of EVERY word of Scripture then you can attribute your salvation to you SAVING YOURSELF!!

Of course, then again, you kind of do, don't you?

Point for my system not being man centered.:applause:

Calv1: Yes, it is non-biblical, but remember you used to be against the doctrines of grace. You thought, like the Muslims, the Roman Church, Molinism, etc. in synergism. But you are now free, proclaim that freedom that we both have, the deep truth of God's glory in saving people only worthy of Hell.



Nope, you have not.

You actually argued that God has a body!!!

So no, you don't even agree with classical Arminians on this issue. Even Arminians believe in anthropomorphic language and deny that God has a body. Unless you consider Finnis J. Dake a good representative of what you believe.

Calv1: You can't debate ignorance and crazy!



The Bible says that God knows all things. You affirmed that God has always known all there is to ever know about everything.

Therefore, it is clear that language that speaks of him NOT KNOWING something or making choices is anthropomorphic.

Calv1: Wrong premise. We have to STUDY to find out what language is anthropomorpic and what is not. This is not picking and choosing, but proper Hermanetics.





You certainly aren't keeping it very well. Even educated Arminians would have to give you a zero so far.





The boasting is still ultimately directed to God who GAVE the knowledge.

You are LITERALLY abusing passages to influence impressionable people on BB to BOAST before God of their salvation!!

Calv1: Anyone who states that God does is not the final arbitor of salvation, IE Synergy, indeed are saying that man is in charge of salvation and that God is a weak beggar, loving all, yet misery abounds in Him, as He has to torment His immense loved ones.

This is dangerous. I hope God will be merciful to those who are new to the faith or very shallow theologically and not let them follow you on these things.

Calv1: He is. These people are lazy in their study. I do pray the same thing


No Calvinist says that Christians can do NO boasting. But we only boast of that which GOD has done in us and for us and to us.

Calv1: Amen. "Be my glory ever"

GOD FORBID THAT I SHOULD GLORY SAVE IN THE CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST! Galatians 6:14



So why are some unwilling and others willing?

Calv1: The bible is clear as can be, God's mercy.

You can give no answer here except that which ultimately says that you are better than the lost.

Calv1: They won't admit it, but yes, since they find salvation in themselves, they must exclude themselves from all scripture that says things like "We are slaves to sin", and "Unable to please God". They will ignore the multitude of passages that point this out because it does not fit into their tradition or emotions or pride.

You are better because you are wiser and more humble.

Congratulations!





DING, DING, DING, DING, DING!

NOW you finally scored an ACTUAL point instead of those you've been making up heretofore.

That's right. GOD makes us better. How many HUNDREDS of times does the Bible affirm this God honoring truth!

Your system has you making YOURSELF better! My HEAVENS man how horrific is the implications of your theology!

You LITERALLY, I mean LITERALLY believe that those who make themselves better than their fellows are the ones who go to heaven!!

No WONDER you argue for your right to BOAST before God.

Oh, how I hope your heart is better than your theology.



God is not to be blamed because he is GOD and who are YOU or ANY puny mortal to try to blame the Almighty.

If he sends me to hell right NOW and you with me just to SUIT him- who will stand before his throne and silence the cries of the seraphim to call him to account?

Calv1: Exactly, but they like to boost, that they choose Christ, when Christ said clearly that "You did not choose me, but I choose you". Mankind, in sin, will always ingore the overwhelming testimony of scripture in order to make themselves King. If it is in the hands of man, then man is in charge, very simple and overwhelmingly imparted by scripture. There is NNE who can out debate me on John 6, Romans 9, or Ephesians 1. Try, but you will fail.

Thank God for his grace but it is HORRIFIC wickedness to presume he MUST extend it to ANYONE, much less EVERYONE!!

Calv1: I have a question for YOU my friend, why does God have any unmerited favor on anyone? He did not spare the angels, why us?

I do not understand why he chooses to give ANYONE grace and faith to receive it and seals them for heaven.

I do not understand how the mind of the Almighty works in his creating the wicked for damnation. But I trust his word and his wisdom which exceeds mine as far as the heavens are above the earth.

You must account for how you save yourself and how you think of yourself as BETTER than all those who perish.

Calv1: They can't, I promise you that!

You must account for what you are going to say to God one day. Will you say, "I am here because I am wiser and humbler than those billions of stupid arrogant souls in hell! REWARD ME! Yes, you did your part- but I did MINE as well. And between the two of us- ME and Jesus- we have got me here!!!"

Or American Indians, they day Christ died they were instantly condemned. Are we so lost in our studies that we don't understand that who we are, where we are born, and who we will be is all from the MASTER???

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Awesome reply Luke! :thumbs:

 

[webdog]

you first. You are the most smug and insulting person i have ever conversed with.

I'll stop pointing out your faults the moment you stop being a smart alek.

Sticks and stones...

Now, as to your references.

Good

i john 5:19
american standard version
we know that we are of god, and the whole world lieth in the evil one.

Does every single person on earth lie in the wicked one??
Are not the saints delivered from the power of the evil one???

The clear contrast to the "we" (the righteous) are the "whole world", which can mean nothing but all sinful mankind. Even "we" at one point were in this condition as Gill, Barnes and Jameison, Faussett and Brown (all calvinists) agree with.

Yea, indeed, by this point many thousands did not lie in the power of the wicked one.

Not to mention all the millions upon million of children who according to you are innocent.

So no. John most certainly did not use whole world to refer to every single person in that instance.

You must believe some are born free from any stain of sin, then. Hmmm...pelagianism?

Nobody with half a brain interprets it to mean every single person on earth, imo.

Correct, I have a whole brain.

revelation 12:9
new american standard bible (©1995)
and the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Does he indeed deceive the every single person on earth????????

Of course not!!

No reputable commentary that was not simply obsessed with supporting arminianism would say otherwise.

He does not deceive the saints. John said that they could not be deceived!

So once again john does not use "whole world" to refer to every single person on earth. He sure as heck-fire does not use it to mean every single person on earth of all ages since the world began and to it's end!

Your very argument supports my view :laugh: Of course the righteous cannot be deceived, only all sinful mankind who are not redeemed. Thanks for making that easy.

Revelation 16:14 has nothing at all to do with every single person on earth but literally means all over the earth.

Are you saying the "whole world" here consists of others besides all sinful unredeemed mankind?!? Are you suggesting believers might be going to war against God?!

And i john 2:2 does not mean every single person either.

What other demographic is there besides the redeemed (us) and all sinful unredeemed mankind?!?

Try again.

Ditto

 

[TomVols]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Or Arminius

Of course...but I just love alliteration

Seriously, would to God that we were as serious at sharing the gospel as debating the gospel.

 

[Skandelon]

Scripture also says, "Peter said much more to warn them. He urged, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

Using your wacko method of literal interpretation of EVERY word of Scripture then you can attribute your salvation to you SAVING YOURSELF!!

Luke, if you want me to take your arguments seriously you will need to properly represent mine. I've never argued for the "literal interpretation of EVERY word of Scripture," otherwise I wouldn't have eyes because they would have been plucked out long ago.

You actually argued that God has a body!!!

Yet, another example of not representing my argument correctly. I made the point that God has a "spiritual body" that we cannot fully comprehend and that God at times has used manifestation of a "body" (i.e. walking in the garden etc). Also, there is the whole Jesus being God and having a body thing...but I'm not claiming all those anthropomorphic terms are even pointing to those things. I'm saying they are representative of things we can't fully understand, but the truths of them shouldn't be dismissed. When it says God hold us by his mighty right hand, we understand that he protects and preserves us in a supernatural infinite way we can't fully grasp, right? In the same way, when it says God chose this or that, we understand that He has made a choice in his own supernatural infinite way. I've never denied anthropomorphic language Luke, and the fact that you argue with me as if I have only reveals you own lack of understanding or objectivity in our discussion.

The boasting is still ultimately directed to God who GAVE the knowledge.

Yep! He did, through preaching, teaching, scripture... It's just not effectually applied in such a way that it can't be known but they rejected. This is why the people in Romans 1 were "without excuse." They KNEW and UNDERSTOOD God and his attributes, but REFUSED to acknowledge Him as their God. That is why they were given over and condemned without any excuses. To suggest that God doesn't allow most of humanity to know and understand God gives them the perfect excuse on the day of judgement.

No Calvinist says that Christians can do NO boasting. But we only boast of that which GOD has done in us and for us and to us.

But the verse says to boast that YOU know and understand, not boast in what God effectually caused in you....you are reading that into the text.

So why are some unwilling and others willing?

I've answered this one before Luke. This question is a fallacy called "begging the question." Tell you what, start a new thread with this question and I'll answer it again for you...this one is getting too long.

You can give no answer here except that which ultimately says that you are better than the lost.

As I said before Luke, your answer is the same. The only difference is that in my system God gave everyone what they needed to be a better person and in your system he chose a select few and made them better. So, either way, we both must answer that we are "better than the lost," the difference is that it is not God's fault for those who refused to believe in my system.

You are better because you are wiser and more humble.
Congratulations!

Thanks, and congrats to you as well.

Your system has you making YOURSELF better!

With his help, yes. Just because I was able to refuse his help doesn't mean that I did it without Him. Again, you are misrepresenting my views. You believe God does it effectually and I believe He does it in a way that can be refused. They perish because they refused to love the truth, not because God refused them.

Thank God for his grace but it is HORRIFIC wickedness to presume he MUST extend it to ANYONE, much less EVERYONE!!

"God would be just to condemn us all to hell." "The wonder of God's mercy and grace is NOT that He doesn't save everyone; it is that He even saves ANYONE!"

This is the very essence of what I believe, even as a non-Calvinist. God is not in any way morally obligated to save anyone because we deserve it. Again, this is a point upon which we can all agree.

However, God has obligated Himself, both morally and judicially, to save whosoever will come (believe). Not because they deserve it, but because He sent forth His Son to be a propitiation for sins of whole world, which is to be applied only through faith. His universal call to "every creature" to faith and repentance obligates him to save whosoever repents and believes. The doctrine that teaches that God only grants this ability to willingly repent and believe to a select few while appearing to call "every creature" is what causes the non-Calvinists to cry, "Foul!"

I don't believe the Calvinistic view of God is unjust because he condemns certain people to hell. We believe the Calvinistic view of God is unjust because He offers a pardon to all mankind while only granted a few of them the ability to receive it, all the while expressing a desire for all to come to repentance and a frustration for those who remain unwilling.

It is deceptive to offer someone a gift you fully know they cannot willingly receive. Especially if you, the giver, are the one who determines the receivers natural abilities. That type of offer cannot be geniune!

 

[DHK]

I know I am saved because of the evidences lined out in Scripture- NONE of which have ANYTHING at ALL to do with unlimited atonement.

You are evading the question. In John 3:16 and in 1John 2:2 if the world doesn't mean all the world and "the sins of the whole world," doesn't mean what it says it means, then how do you know for sure that you are part of that world that it actually defines. If, for example, it is defined as only the geographical area that Christ walked you are left out of that world and doomed to hell. For you were never part of that world. How do you get around that unless that world is for all sinners in all the world of all ages. Do you now understand my question? How can you have any assurance of salvation with a limited definition of "world"? The "world" Christ spoke of may not include you.

I love the brethren, I have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit, I keep the commandments of Christ, etc...

My father gave me all those same answers. He was a devout Roman Catholic. I don't believe he was saved. Satan is a great deceiver.

The fact that you have to say such a thing is proof enough that you need to have an overhaul of your theology.

You listen but you do not hear.
I said: "I believe salvation is all of God," but not the way that you define it. I believe Christ died for the sins of the world also, but not the way you define it. So we come to the same conclusion. You need to overhaul your theology.

Faith is the gift of God.

A statement with no Biblical proof; an opinion bordering on heresy.
God does not give faith to the unregenerate.
God does not give spiritual gifts to the unregenerate.
God does not give the fruit of the spirit to the unregenerate.
There is no Scripture in all the Bible that indicates that he does. This is a man-made doctrine to support and prop-up Calvinism. It is totally unbiblical. You cannot support it, and have not supported it with a single verse of Scripture.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

That is written to Christians.
I have believed on Christ. It was I that believed, and as the verse indicates it is I that will suffer. The verse supports my view.

It is our faith that God gives us.

An opinion stated without scriptural support. An unfounded unbiblical opinion.

Now you tell me why some people go to heaven and others do not.

Read your Bible:

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (1 John 5:12)

In your theology those who are better, if not morally at least mentally, go to heaven and the rest go to hell.

Not true:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Romans 3:10)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

Who will go to heaven:
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

You are going to heaven because you were wiser than all those poor stupid souls that did not make the wise choice you made- the choice to accept Christ.

Not true.
Man in his rebellion against God chooses not to receive Christ:
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

You are better than the billions who perish because you were more humble than them all. They were self-righteous and tried to get to heaven by their own works. NOT YOU! OH NO! You were not so stupid as they were. You were so much more wonderfully humble than all of them.

Not so. I was just as rebellious and self-righteous until someone finally shared the gospel with me at the age of 20. Before that time I had never heard it before. Once I heard it, I trusted Christ as my Savior. If I had gone on in my darkness without ever hearing the gospel the blood of my eternal destiny would have rested on those two individuals who shared with me the gospel (if they had not shared the gospel when they had the opportunity).
The same is true of us. If God gives you the call to the mission field or even to witness to another individual and you don't his blood will be on your hands.

So you are better than BILLIONS of lost humans.

I was lost and Jesus saved me. I was given a choice and I believed.

Now THAT is something to boast about!!!

I have nothing to boast in except in the glory of my Lord Jesus Christ who made the sacrifice to save me, and did.

When you get to heaven I'm sure God will pat you on the back and say- You, DHK, are 1 in a billion. Congratulations on being so much wiser and humbler than those stupid arrogant people in hell. You are here because YOU chose wisely. You are here because YOU humbled yourself! Oh, what a great man you are!!!!"

I trust I will be one of those that the Lord will say: "Well done thou good and faithful servant." but that won't be in regard to salvation, it will be in regard to service.

Are you as holy as God is holy?
When you get to heaven, and if God were to say to you: "Why should I let you into my heaven," what answer will you give?

 

[JesusFan]

You are evading the question. In John 3:16 and in 1John 2:2 if the world doesn't mean all the world and "the sins of the whole world," doesn't mean what it says it means, then how do you know for sure that you are part of that world that it actually defines. If, for example, it is defined as only the geographical area that Christ walked you are left out of that world and doomed to hell. For you were never part of that world. How do you get around that unless that world is for all sinners in all the world of all ages. Do you now understand my question? How can you have any assurance of salvation with a limited definition of "world"? The "world" Christ spoke of may not include you.

Jesus may have died for the Sins of the entire World, as the propiation/atonement for all mankind, but it is ONLY effectual to those He has chosen to redeem, the Elected ones by God....

My father gave me all those same answers. He was a devout Roman Catholic. I don't believe he was saved. Satan is a great deceiver.

The Holy Spirit Himself bears witness within us that we are Children of God....

Agree that satan does deceive, its just that Jesus knows those who are of His, and they also do know Him...
We CAN know that we now DO have Eternal Life, as those who believe in/upon the only Son of God, Jesus Christ...

You listen but you do not hear.
I said: "I believe salvation is all of God," but not the way that you define it. I believe Christ died for the sins of the world also, but not the way you define it. So we come to the same conclusion. You need to overhaul your theology.

Died for All in the sense that he made made it possible for All to believe in him and receive eternal life, BUT only those who God "convicts/regenerates/believes" can possess that new life in Christ

A statement with no Biblical proof; an opinion bordering on heresy.
God does not give faith to the unregenerate.
God does not give spiritual gifts to the unregenerate.
God does not give the fruit of the spirit to the unregenerate.
There is no Scripture in all the Bible that indicates that he does. This is a man-made doctrine to support and prop-up Calvinism. It is totally unbiblical. You cannot support it, and have not supported it with a single verse of Scripture.

That is written to Christians.
I have believed on Christ. It was I that believed, and as the verse indicates it is I that will suffer. The verse supports my view.

An opinion stated without scriptural support. An unfounded unbiblical opinion.

Read your Bible:

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (1 John 5:12)

Not true:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Romans 3:10)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

Who will go to heaven:
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Not true.
Man in his rebellion against God chooses not to receive Christ:
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

Not so. I was just as rebellious and self-righteous until someone finally shared the gospel with me at the age of 20. Before that time I had never heard it before. Once I heard it, I trusted Christ as my Savior. If I had gone on in my darkness without ever hearing the gospel the blood of my eternal destiny would have rested on those two individuals who shared with me the gospel (if they had not shared the gospel when they had the opportunity).
The same is true of us. If God gives you the call to the mission field or even to witness to another individual and you don't his blood will be on your hands.

I was lost and Jesus saved me. I was given a choice and I believed.

I have nothing to boast in except in the glory of my Lord Jesus Christ who made the sacrifice to save me, and did.

I trust I will be one of those that the Lord will say: "Well done thou good and faithful servant." but that won't be in regard to salvation, it will be in regard to service.

Are you as holy as God is holy?
When you get to heaven, and if God were to say to you: "Why should I let you into my heaven," what answer will you give?

God has chosen to use the Preaching of the Gospel, and the power of the Holy Spirit to grant eternal life to those he foreknew and predestined to become partakers in life in Christ, to those He gave the right to be called the sons of God....