The pre-wrath rapture view

[Internet Theologian]

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." 1 Peter 3:18-22

Those pesky little passages that show Christ as reigning here and now!

Someone forgot to inform the Godhead that the old devil is ruling this world. Uh oh!!!!!!!

 

[Internet Theologian]

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

waiting for the next eisegeting of the text...

...wonder what 'of this world' means?

 

[JonShaff]

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." 1 Peter 3:18-22

Those pesky little passages that show Christ as reigning here and now!

Someone forgot to inform the Godhead that the old devil is ruling this world. Uh oh!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone is saying "Christ doesn't reign," but it's obvious in scripture that He is allowing satan to rule the World until Christ Brings His Kingdom to Earth. Job/Satan is a microcosm of This reality.

 

[JonShaff]

...wonder what 'of this world' means?

You tell me.

 

[Iconoclast]

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

waiting for the next eisegeting of the text...

His kingdom doesn't derive its authority from anyone on earth it's a heavenly reign.

You are using hindsight to mix your presuppositions into scripture.

Not at all. I am using scripture of both the ot and nt to determine the true nature of the Kingdom, what it us, who is included, and who gets removed in judgment.
Can you back up what you said? Do not get flustered and offer shallow carnal reasoning....take your time, read, re read, then offer scripturally.or you will be like your friend who asks meaningless questions to be cute.

 

[JonShaff]

His kingdom doesn't arrive at 4:30 from anyone on earth it's a heavenly reign

Not at all. I am using scripture of both the ot and nt to determine the true nature of the Kingdom, what it us, who is included, and who gets removed in judgment.
Can you back up what you said? Do not get flustered and offer shallow carnal reasoning....take your time, read, re read, then offer scripturally.or you will be like your friend who asks meaningless questions to be cute.

I think i'm doing better today lol. I had a long day yesterday and little time to reason with Scripture. That was my fault and shouldn't have engaged. I am out of time today though, back to work.

 

[JonShaff]

His kingdom doesn't derive its authority from anyone on earth it's a heavenly reign.

A heavenly reign, and that is precisely why Christ SENT ambassadors into a FOREIGN LAND(because of His permissive Will) . Christ will demonstrate His power soon enough though.

 

[JonShaff]

And Yes, from an eternal Perspective, which we can see because God gave us His Holy Word and prophetic Word, We know Christ reigns and Rules, however (once again, because of His permissive will) we have yet to see the fulfillment of That because He gave satan dominion over the world.

 

[Internet Theologian]

And Yes, from an eternal Perspective, which we can see because God gave us His Holy Word and prophetic Word, We know Christ reigns and Rules, however (once again, because of His permissive will) we have yet to see the fulfillment of That because He gave satan dominion over the world.

So therefore you see His kingdom happening here according to the things of Matthew 13, correct?

 

[JonShaff]

So therefore you see His kingdom happening here according to the things of Matthew 13, correct?

Luke 17
20 And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with observation;

21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'

 

[Internet Theologian]

Luke 17
20 And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, `The reign of God doth not come with observation;

21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'

Yes, but aren't you looking for just that, an observable kingdom?

And again, why did He say that to them? What was the reason for Him to do so? That's the question.

The fact remains, the kingdom is existing here in part, the subjects are described in the parables of Matthew 13, that is, unless the kingdom is completely invisible, meaningless, has no subjects in it and can never be observed.

 

[DHK]

One difference between me and you is.....I believe Jesus prayer was answered, you and your false theology declare otherwise....RoflmaoCautious

No, you believe his prayer was fruitless; that it was redundant; a waste of time for Jesus.
Your belief is that they were already translated into the kingdom of his dear son, so his prayer wasn't answered at all. It was just meaningless words.

 

[DHK]

You are not reading with any comprehension at all. You are running rough shod over the passage .

CONTEXT:

2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

The context is the believers at Corinth. Again and again the first person plural is "we," indicating Paul and the believers at Corinth. It is "our" gospel that is hid to the lost.
But in this world that both they and we happen to live Satan is the god of this world.
We live in this world though we are not of this world. How do you get around this fact?

 

[JonShaff]

CONTEXT:

2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

The context is the believers at Corinth. Again and again the first person plural is "we," indicating Paul and the believers at Corinth. It is "our" gospel that is hid to the lost.
But in this world that both they and we happen to live Satan is the god of this world.
We live in this world though we are not of this world. How do you get around this fact?

He is dull of hearing.

 

[JonShaff]

Yes, but aren't you looking for just that, an observable kingdom?

Nope, i know the Kingdom of God is (Observable) in Heaven and in the Hearts of His People.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Nope, i know the Kingdom of God is in Heaven and in the Hearts of His People.

It is among us.

 

[JonShaff]

It is among us.

See my edit.

 

[JonShaff]

I think some are being intentionally/willfully stubborn

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't think anyone is saying "Christ doesn't reign," but it's obvious in scripture that He is allowing satan to rule the World until Christ Brings His Kingdom to Earth. Job/Satan is a microcosm of This reality.

This is a common error. They set up strawmen in order to knock them down such as if you do not believe that Christ reigns on earth as foretold in scripture during the millennium then you do not believe God is in control at all.

Satan can be the "ruler" of this world currently while God is still sovereign and while waiting for a future physical rule of Christ from the throne of David. Those are in fact all true at the same time.

Rom_16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
1Co_5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
1Co_7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
2Co_2:11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.
2Co_11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2Co_12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming

The above verses alone debunk any idea that Satan is bound up currently.

 

[Internet Theologian]

See my edit.

I know, and it is among us, like right now, but not fully.