What Is Free Will?

[Eternally Grateful]

Why don't you post some Scripture for that...

You can not remember when Jesu said all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men?

You do not know where the Bible says at the great white throne they will be judged for their works, not sin?

Come one man, do I need to do your work fo you?

 

[Revmitchell]

I would love to know how in the world you come to that conclusion.

you and i have had this discussion. John 17 Jesus prays for those given to Him. It is clear He was talking about the disciples. Later in John 17 He prays for everyone who believes as a result of their witness. That means you and I

 

[Campion]

Do you know the difference between a simile and a metaphor?

Yes. And Jesus used both in relation to Judas.

Simile: "Behold, I am sending you [the twelve] out as sheep in the midst of wolves." (Mt. 10:16)

Metaphor: "And Jesus said to them [the twelve], 'You will all fall away, for it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.'" (Mk 14:27)


Again, the sheep represent the saved and Calvinism can only be true if Judas, once explicitly called a SHEEP by Jesus, is now in heaven looking down and smiling on you.

 

[Reformed1689]

you and i have had this discussion. John 17 Jesus prays for those given to Him. It is clear He was talking about the disciples. Later in John 17 He prays for everyone who believes as a result of their witness. That means you and I

And John 17 and John 6 are NOT the same context.

 

[Revmitchell]

And John 17 and John 6 are NOT the same context.

says you. Jesus prayed for those given to Him. Same thing He talked about in John 6

 

[Reformed1689]

You can not remember when Jesu said all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men?

You do not know where the Bible says at the great white throne they will be judged for their works, not sin?

Come one man, do I need to do your work fo you?

No you don't need to do my work for me but clearly you need to do some work. Matthew 12:31 is not saying all sin will be forgiven. It is saying that the one sin that will never be forgiven is blasphemy against the Spirit. That being said, if there is any sin that will not be forgiven, then all sin is not forgiven so you have a problem with your position there.

As far as the judgement. Only believers will not be judged on their sin because it was already forgiven. Sin are works, you realize that right?

 

[Reformed1689]

There you go again.

I take it you have no desire to discuss.

Because that argument comes from pride. Not from the truth. Because I can use that same argument against you/. But where does it get us.

Let’s discuss the word. Not what you think again, what you and I think does not matter.

I've been discussing, but your arguments are ridiculous and not grounded in Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

says you. Jesus prayed for those given to Him. Same thing He talked about in John 6

Just because it is the same word doesn't mean it has the same meaning. You have to look at CONTEXT. John 6 and John 17 are not the same context to argue such is ridiculous. They were years apart.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet John 3 states that very fact.

Don;t tell me you were taught Christ died for everyone, I am not buying it. Your telling me everything every calvinist I have ever met tells me, You use the same excuses, the same arguments and the same strawman arguments,

That does not come from you being taught that Christ died for the whole world

Cosmos (world) in scripture by defenition is the world which is ruled by satan, and those who are in that world

Jesus died for them, that whoever among them believes in him will nto die. But have eternal life.

I have not always been a calvinist. You shouldn't make assumptions, you know what they say about assuming? What strawman have I put forth against you? Please show me and clarify where I was wrong.

I told you what I was taught. And I am telling you what I was taught was WRONG and not found in Scripture. John 3 does not state Christ died for every individual. You read that into the text.

Jesus died for the whoever will believe. Not the rest. It doesn't say he died for the rest. In fact, John 3 does not even discuss who he died for. It just says he came so that whoever believes will live.

Jesus said he died for the sheep, not all people.

 

[Revmitchell]

Just because it is the same word doesn't mean it has the same meaning. You have to look at CONTEXT. John 6 and John 17 are not the same context to argue such is ridiculous. They were years apart.

Ok well you are making a claim but can you break down the context of John 6? What sets up the context that makes it about salvation?

 

[Reformed1689]

Ok well you are making a claim but can you break down the context of John 6? What sets up the context that makes it about salvation?

You are kidding right?

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jn 6:35–40.

 

[Revmitchell]

You are kidding right?

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jn 6:35–40.

8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go.” vThis was to fulfill the word that he had spoken: “Of those whom you gave me I have lost not one.” John 18:8-9

 

[Reformed1689]

8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go.” vThis was to fulfill the word that he had spoken: “Of those whom you gave me I have lost not one.” John 18:8-9

Again, CONTEXT

 

[Revmitchell]

Again, CONTEXT

which is the same

 

[Reformed1689]

which is the same

As Jn 17, not Jn 6

 

[37818]

Yes, he was. Go back to verse 7 and you can see Jesus is with the twelve.

"And in the evening he cometh with the twelve...And Jesus saith unto them, 'All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.'" (Mark 14:7, 27)

You mean Mark 14:17, ". . . And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. . . ."
Mark 14:26 is a parallel passage with John 18:1. Judas was there from Luke 22:19-22 until John 13:30. So by John 18:1, Mark 14:26, Judas had gone from the others, per John 13:26-30.

 

[Silverhair]

“Free will” is the second lie of Satan in the garden, right after “you shall not surely die.”

To to claim you will be “like God, knowing good and evil” means that, like God, they would always be able to chose the good instead of the evil.

Once they rebelled and their eyes were open to the knowledge of good and evil, they realized they were separated from God and exposed (naked) to His judgement and wrath.

People have “human will”, that is either enslaved to sin or enslaved to God. The will is never “free” from influence that affects all decisions; either our own sin nature, our culture, our friends and families, etc,,,

peace to you

"To to claim you will be “like God, knowing good and evil” means that, like God, they would always be able to chose the good instead of the evil."

Now there is a classic example of the calvinist adding to /reading into scripture.
Gen 3:5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Where does that say "they would always be able to chose the good instead of the evil." You must have a different text in your bible. Perhaps that explains why some calvinists make so many mistakes with regard to the bible.

 

[Silverhair]

I believe it was Dr. James White who said, “A will that is free will choose nothing.”

Now that's a real bright statement. The fact that you would post it makes me wonder.

 

[Silverhair]

God certainly gave Adam and Eve the freedom to make that rebellious choice. Tell me, how free were they to enter back in to that said garden???

How free were you in regard to your salvation?
If you say you had no choice then you can not even know if you are really saved, you just have to hope you are. That sounds a lot like the Mormons who will tell you that they know Mornonism is true because they had a burning in the chest.

 

[Silverhair]

Adam and Eve were not yet afflicted with a sin nature when they chose to eat of the fruit. In that sense, they had “free will”.

But even then, Eve’s decision was influenced by Satan’s lies and Adam’s decision was influenced by his wife, who brought him the fruit.

If you define “free will” as “you have choices to make”, then you generalize the concept of “free will” so as to make it meaningless. Of course everyone makes choices.

The question of “free will” is always the “why” we make the choices we do. Scripture tells us the soul that sins is a slave to sin. Paul spends several chapters in Romans arguing people are enslaved to sin and act (make.choices) according to the effect sin has on them.

Freedom from sin comes only when we are freed by Jesus Christ (If the Son sets you free you are free indeed), at which point we become slaves to Christ Jesus.

BTW, the “whosoever believes” of John 3:16, has already been limited a few verses earlier when Jesus says (in reference to being born again) that the wind (Spirit) blows where it wills……, so is everyone born of the Spirit.

peace to you

Now you are limiting what the bible says. That is stepping over the line.