Women pastors

[SavedByGrace]

"MacArthur also DENIED..."

Denied = past tense

If he can change his mind on the very essence of who God is, I wonder if he will change his mind on this?

another weak strawman argument! tell me what is wrong with, "JM USED to deny"???

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did you have a mother growing up? How about a female teacher?

Again, unless the office described in the New Testament is something deeper than just teaching and nurturing, then what's the big deal? Who cares?

like we don't care what you say on here!

 

[Campion]

like we don't care what you say on here!

Thanks for the charity you have displayed.

Are you aware you don't have to reply to my posts if you don't care what I have to say?

 

[Campion]

another weak strawman argument! tell me what is wrong with, "JM USED to deny"???

Hardly a strawman. I am just asking why MacArthur is appealed to as an expert. The guy botched up one of the basic tenets of Christianity. If he led his flock into error (a quite serious one) for years, why should anyone take what he says seriously now?

 

[Campion]

No, the context of Paul’s statement “…there is neither male or female, slave or free, Jew or Gentile….” concerns salvation by faith in Jesus.

Jewish men, traditionally, believed women and Gentiles were inferior in the eyes of God. Paul was correcting that bias. All mankind stands equally at the foot of the cross and may come to Christ by His grace.

When it comes to leadership in the church, Paul is clear that God has called for male leadership, prohibiting women from serving in positions of authority over men. That has nothing to do with the perceived “worth” of anyone, rather that God has ordained a specific order for His fellowship of believers.

In the end, it won’t matter what position we held in the church, but rather, we’re we faithful to the ministry God has called us to.

peace to you

Is Paul's teaching on this matter absolute?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Creates confusion for no real reason.

Not really. It comes from the idea that the SS Teacher is their students' primary contact.

 

[rsr]

Please keep it civil, folks. Stop the name calling and extend some grace to others.

 

[Jerome]

Sunday School\Sunday AM Adult Bible Study teachers are to pastor their classes.

Thank you.

1944 article on the highly regarded Capitol Hill Baptist Church (which has been "always doctrinally conservative", see "Our History" page on its website), commending several Sunday School teachers' long ministries:

"Several men's Bible classes have been taught by women. One class, taught by Miss Gertrude Smith, had to disband because all its members are in the armed services. Women teaching 25 years or more are Miss Frances Guschewsky, Miss Florence Gravatte and Mrs. Daniel C. Shankle."


Frances Guschewsky and her class photographed on the steps of Capitol Hill Baptist Church, appeared in same newspaper two decades earlier, in 1925:

 

[ntchristian]

MacArthur dealt with that in detail. You probably didn't listen to him. Would clear up a lot for you.
That one is simple. Amazingly simple.

MacArthur is not my authority.

 

[ntchristian]

I don't belong to a denomination.

So, what church do you go to? I think I know, but I'll wait for your answer.

 

[ntchristian]

No, the context of Paul’s statement “…there is neither male or female, slave or free, Jew or Gentile….” concerns salvation by faith in Jesus.

Jewish men, traditionally, believed women and Gentiles were inferior in the eyes of God. Paul was correcting that bias. All mankind stands equally at the foot of the cross and may come to Christ by His grace.

When it comes to leadership in the church, Paul is clear that God has called for male leadership, prohibiting women from serving in positions of authority over men. That has nothing to do with the perceived “worth” of anyone, rather that God has ordained a specific order for His fellowship of believers.

In the end, it won’t matter what position we held in the church, but rather, we’re we faithful to the ministry God has called us to.

peace to you

Interesting that you consider context in one place but not another.

 

[canadyjd]

Interesting that you consider context in one place but not another.

I most certainly consider context in every passage of scripture.

The context of 1 Timothy and instructions regarding leadership cannot be separated from Paul’s reference to the creation and the fall as the reason women are prohibited from teaching or having authority over the men.

I context of the Corinthian letters is quite different. As mentioned, this was a church with real problems concerning disruptions during the worship service. That is the context of Paul’s instructions on tongues, interpretations, women keeping silent and covering their heads as a show of submission to leadership.

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

Not really. It comes from the idea that the SS Teacher is their students' primary contact.

I have never heard anyone argue that the office of pastor is anything other than the office of bishop. Your female aSS teachers clearly do not meet the criteria for the office of bishop.

 

[Reynolds]

Interesting that you consider context in one place but not another.

I consider it in both places.
Did you listen to JMac? I am not going to spend 30 minutes typing what he lays out in detail.

 

[ntchristian]

I most certainly consider context in every passage of scripture.

The context of 1 Timothy and instructions regarding leadership cannot be separated from Paul’s reference to the creation and the fall as the reason women are prohibited from teaching or having authority over the men.

I context of the Corinthian letters is quite different. As mentioned, this was a church with real problems concerning disruptions during the worship service. That is the context of Paul’s instructions on tongues, interpretations, women keeping silent and covering their heads as a show of submission to leadership.

peace to you

My apologizes. I had forgotten a previous post of yours in which you referenced the context. Things are moving so fast here, I can't keep up!

 

[Campion]

I most certainly consider context in every passage of scripture.

The context of 1 Timothy and instructions regarding leadership cannot be separated from Paul’s reference to the creation and the fall as the reason women are prohibited from teaching or having authority over the men.

I context of the Corinthian letters is quite different. As mentioned, this was a church with real problems concerning disruptions during the worship service. That is the context of Paul’s instructions on tongues, interpretations, women keeping silent and covering their heads as a show of submission to leadership.

peace to you

But didn't "sin enter the world through one man"?

 

[ntchristian]

I consider it in both places.
Did you listen to JMac? I am not going to spend 30 minutes typing what he lays out in detail.

I wasn't addressing you in regard to context; I was replying to canadyjd.

 

[Reynolds]

MacArthur is not my authority.

He lays out the Scriptural case. You listened to it?

 

[Reynolds]

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ESV
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, [34] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. [35] If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

I have no idea how anyone can misunderstand this.
"As in all the Churches .....Women ...are not permitted to speak."
How can you not understand that?

 

[canadyjd]

My apologizes. I had forgotten a previous post of yours in which you referenced the context. Things are moving so fast here, I can't keep up!

Noted and accepted. Thanks for clarifying.

I’ve been having this discussion for more than 25 years, right after I was saved I began a NT class at a local college. The prof brought these same issues of cultural context up. I kept coming back to the fact Paul gave his reason for prohibiting women from teaching or having authority over men as based on the creation and the fall.

Finally, he told me that he “disagreed with Paul’s interpretation of the OT”. I was astonished. I said “but Paul was an Apostle”. He responded, “Paul thought he was an Apostle”. So he knew what scripture said, but refused to accept it.

I dropped the class.

I have come to realize that this discussion isn’t really about women being pastors. This discussion is about the authority of scripture.

So I’ll ask you, do you accept Paul’s interpretation of the OT as it pertains to male leadership in the church?

peace to you