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But, that argument ultimately fails: Calvinists rightly point out that God has chosen to use "means"... as they say.....namely the preaching of the gospel, prayers of the lost, etc...for the task of accomplishing his Divine Purpose. To his glory, and for it, God is so disposed that it pleases...

O.K: To speak to this argument.....it helps neither the Calvinist nor the non-Calvinist: The "Why do you pray" thingy.....is a dead-end for both groups. The arguments line up somewhat thusly: I.) Why does a Calvinist pray for the lost?? Inasmuch as God has, of his own free will and purposes...

As a quick liner note: Those debates never actually happened B.T.W: It was a rhetorical strawman popular in the late middle ages when men like Anselm, Aquinas, and perhaps more significantly, John Duns Scotus ruled the day.... We actually get our English word "Dunce" from abusing the thoughts...

No kidding, but leave it to a liberal to cite numbers showing economic growth for both wealthy and poor alike, and then complaining about it. It is envy and covetousness of thy neighbors goods pure and simple.

I believe all persons generally are possessed of that ability. You, for one. Myself etc.

Should have simply said "internal or external necessity." Yes, I suppose I lean towards a "Scholastic" understanding (if I'm understanding what you mean by that). I don't agree with the Reformed Philosophers at all on the issue of course.

YUP!!!! Preaching regularly in Central Florida! And, no Church I'm preaching in will qualify as a "serious contender" for your membership then...I'm sure we can live with that. ;) Thanks be to God, who is Sovereign in all things and has elected of his wisdom and grace who (for his own glory) has...

Nope, there are other options.

No, it means nothing of the sort. "real" free will is a phrase with no meaning: "absolute" free will is a phrase with no meaning... and, inasmuch as you mentioned an "external force" that can be applied, I already cut that off at the pass with my definition wherein I stated it was not...

You did. Nope, I wasn't.... In a vacuum (which is where I was coming from) it sounded like little more than a rhetorical homily on: "Non-Calvinists" "HATE" God's Sovereignty....(actually he did say that) "Non-Calvinists" exalt man above God..blah blah blah Gotta be honest, though, if he's a...

mmmmkayyyy.............. you'll have to be infinitely more creative than this to expect anyone to respond with any level of seriousness. Phrases like "HATE the 'Sovereignty' of God", despite how fun they are for you to type, don't mean much to people who simply role their eyes in boredom at...

"Free Will"... at least in the sense of a 'Libertarian' free will, is that capacity of a sentient being to choose between two or more options or to elect to not make a choice at all, and that that choice is not determined by either internal or external logical necessity.

Calvinists are so cute. Boastfully beating their chests in the street so we can all see how humble you are. These public protestations of your own sinfulness. I've seen the Calvinist "I am more pious because I wallow in more self-loathing" game. That's the bit I'm not buying. No one is...

I don't hate you at all. I don't even know you. I didn't imply that I hate you. I just have zero faith in your proclaimed warm feelings towards us non-Calvinists.

I never hated God.... I was raised in a Godly Christian home knowing and understanding the majesty and wonder and grace of God. I never hated him.... I pity your impoverished philosophy full of God-hatred. That was stupid. From a child I knew the Holy Scriptures which can make you wise unto...

Seriously, this is your argument??? "You're stupid Heir.....and you don't understand third-grade grammar....blah blah blah... non-determinists are so stupid....blah blah blah..." Idiots...didn't pass third grade...blah, blah, blah... That's the sum-total of your argument..... You seem to think...

We are not your friends........and never will be from the time the semi-gnostics murdered Michael Servetus till now, we know the cloth you are cut from. From the time the "Reformers" began torturing the Anabaptists and drowning their women and children in frozen rivers, we know what...

Dude........ I doubt ANYONE is buying what you are selling here. You spent time arguing about the cardiovascular effort demanded to SNORE in order to prove a point of Theology?????? Frankly, That's pathetic. 1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of...

It's of popular use by Molinists specifically.....moreso than rote "Arminians". That may be where the disconnect lies.

Ah, but, alas, since to "cling" is an action verb....something you DO! :eek: That, by your definition qualifies as a "work".