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Wow—there was a ‘NO!’---I gotta hear the reasoning & biblical support behind this proposal! Maybe he’s intending the ‘no’ to mean---no in the sense that God’s omniscience doesn’t equate Him predestining the event—which is assumed by some to be the intent of the OP---regardless I’m interested to...

Lol—sounds a lot like Mr Pinnock to me---but since its just for the sake of discussion----Since God is not bound by time, this would not impact His knowledge. While He does act within time, time itself does not limit God’s all knowing ability. Does this mean that God predetermined that I’d eat...

Nuf said brother icon—nuf said---yet we r the bullies unfairly targeting the poor non reformed Van---yet I’ve never heard skan, web, winn, or any other non-reformed brother take it this far----hopefully some will begin 2 understand r concerns now!

I know if its off topic---but I haven’t seen you in a while Amy—I hope all is well with my Gen 6 buddy!:) And Lord help us—if Luke makes an appearance in this thread—oh my---even I will feel sorry for Van!

Yeah—last time I made that point—they shut the thread down—so I’d like to see 4 myself as well!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: You make such a good point!!!! But I’m a man of my word! So I’ll just have to sit back & watch this thread & not attack—besides you & everyone else seem 2 b doin just fine without me!

Why don’t you explain the Greek to us Van—maybe you could enlighten us!!! Ok ok—I apologize a head of time—I said I was gonna leave u alone—but I just couldn’t resist!

:laugh:---Of course not my dear brother! Very impressive answers! But 2 b honest I do fear Mr Van might have bitten off more than he can chew with this thread! Even if I do disagree with the guy more times than not---this has the potential to turn real ugly----real fast! Even webdoggie knows...

Van-I’m not a full-blooded Calvinist—so I can’t speak for my reformed brothers—but I think (despite your misconstruction of their system) jbh & Stefan did a good job answering & I’d be concerned if I were you--- if glf, Luke, or many of the other highly intelligent Calvinist read your faulty...

Jbh—you often have very humorous & clever add ons in your posts (I’ve seen at least 2 in past few days)---I personally appreciate the comic relief in this otherwise gang war we Baptist seem to be having against each other about soteriology!

Very good question & one that has seen much debate over the centuries. But in the Greek both faith & grace are feminine, whereas the “that” (touto, a demonstrative pronoun) is neuter, which means it is difficult to narrow down the gift of Eph 2:8 to either faith or grace. B/c of this many...

Van—since the last thread got closed down & I couldn’t respond to you---I’ll apologize to you here since you think I’m trying to slander you—that’s not my intentions---but everything you’ve written in this thread & the election before time thread—to me-are obvious attempts to act like you know...

Well lets start with his insistence on not being a Greek scholar—then insisting his way to interpret the Greek is always correct b/c it makes logical sense (ie pretending to be something he is not), then his dangerously close flirtation with open theism, his statements about individual election...

No actually none of the words were meant to disparage Van & they were simply a recognition that 2 parties can disagree & still respect each other-- & agree to disagree—but what it was--- was a warning for you on who you side up with—especially considering your own admission of: God Bless!

Skandelon— although I often disagree with you---you actually do not overly distort Scripture, you actually know the terminology you use, you never pretend to be something your not, & at least you attempt biblical exegesis instead of relying on your own logical eisegesis----None of these things...

Yeah I had to quote Strongs too, b/c all my lexicons & Greek text books are at my church office & its all I had at home—it really kinda made feel like a novice in Greek again:tear:, but it did answer Van’s challenge to find just 1 source that ever says apo can mean ‘before’. So at least it was...

Let me repeat what you said Van— u said: Now let me provide again the website that proves you wrong! http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strong...on&isindex=apo u said: So you call me a liar—b/c I clearly said I looked at Strong’s & gave you the page number & reference number. u said...

Van—u had no problem questioning my character when I accepted your challenge. I even tried to be nice about it—but you all but called me a liar—when I tried to tell you where the evidence was. Nevertheless, I can forgive you as Christ forgave me. I have to go to a Sunday school meeting now--God...

I’m actually writing a sermon on the temptation of Christ to preach next week. One of the amazing & often overlooked things is that Luke 4:2 has tempted (peirazomenos) in the present participle suggesting that Christ was tempted the entire 40 days, which culminated in 3 major temptations...

Here Van I even found it online for you since u dont have the book-- http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=apo here is a paste & cut of what it says: 575. apo apo' a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or...