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The point that pushes people into any form of pelagianism is their view of the gospel. If you believe that it takes a powerful, Holy Spirit wrought work of God for men to have faith in Christ then you are not a Pelagian, for Pelagius (according to what reports we have) denied the doctrine of...

Why does it matter if they "can help it" or not? That has never mattered for you (and your doctrinal system) in the past? Plus, how can they "help it" if their mannerisms have been casually determined by divine decree? I thought you denied Libertarian freedom and thus the ability of people to...

The issue is subjective, Willis. As pointed out, who is the measure and standard of what is masculine enough? Are you that judge? Is Luke? And what of cultural norms? In Turkey men hold hands or walk arm in arm. That is not seen as 'gay' or non-masculine in that culture. Clothes are also...

I think the issue is differentiating between those things that can be helped or controlled by the individual and those things which cannot. I know that is not a distinction that is easy for a "deterministic thinker" to acknowledge, but I do believe it is the reason for much of this conflict.

I told you about a friend of mine who had a high voice and lisp, and you responded saying: "I would suggest that the way men walk, talk and move should be distinct from the way women and girls do these things." and... "but WAY in which the person chooses to pronounce his words" So...

It's just like a Deterministic Calvinist to hold men accountable for something they have no control over. :tear: Does a man control the size and pitch of his vocal chords? Does he control his height or bone structure? Can he help if he has a lisp? Does talking deeper, walking bow legged...

I have a dear friend who has higher voice and a bit of a lisp...the kind often associated with those who are gay, but he is not. He is small, thin, pale, neat and single. He hates that some assume he is gay, but this is just who he is. Would some suggest he disguise his voice, wear 'butch'...

Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I've got 4 kids myself and I remember those young years. Like I said, I'd probably just laugh about something like this unless this is the way he always dressed or something. I'm not taking that very seriously or anything, but on the serious side, when we...

Luke, I don't believe there is anything wrong or sinful about a man having more 'feminine' qualities than you. (higher voice, gestures, movements, etc.) Those qualities aren't sin, they are just different from you. After all, it is intent of the heart that determines wether something is...

Diamond Lady, There is a difference in a boy playing with dolls and princesses and pretending to be one, IMO. If my son is wearing around a Tutu or my daughter was wearing around a jock strap, I'd try to keep from laughing to hard and then I'd explain how it wasn't appropriate. There is...

"What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas "; still another, "I follow Christ." [And, "I follow Calvin."] Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?" - Paul "You are still worldly...

Nevertheless, I'll play along: Depravity: Man is born depraved, sinful and in need of a savior. He is born as God's enemy and in need of reconciliation. (This doesn't mean he is born unable to willingly respond to God's appeal for reconciliation however. The Gospel is more powerful than...

The "Arminian" statements are laughable and completely misrepresentative of what Jacobus Arminius taught, or what most reputable 'Arminian' believers teach today.

But I presume you interpreted that verse "Calvinistically" which is why I rebutted that interpretation. Of course. Those are uniquely divine events of God's active and effectual working. To suggest EVERY event is likewise determined by God only serves to undermine these uniquely divine ones...

:thumbsup: People deny the possibility of free will for the same reason they deny the possibility of God...both are mysterious and cannot be scientifically measured or comprehended. A seemingly uncaused choice, whether chosen by God or one of his creatures, is beyond our ability to define...

I didn't deny that Calvinism teaches the "puppet people" are held to account. ;) I argued that Calvinism holds them to account for something in which they have no ability to change or control whatsoever, thus giving mankind a perfect excuse for not caring and writing off God all together. If...

As I argued a while back, Calvinism gives unbelievers the best excuse out there: "I couldn't have done otherwise." or "God made me this way." or "I'm just doing as I was predestined to do." or "God doesn't chose to love me, why should I chose to love Him?"

The law of non-contradiction states that something cannot be both true and not true at the same time when dealing with the same context; and since we are claiming that God (in one context) is a free moral Being who created other free moral beings (in another context), then there is no violation...

It's more than them both stemming from God's eternal decree. I've yet to hear a definition of a human moral choice that has much (if any) distinction from the instinctive response of an animal. Both appear to be a reflexive conditioned responses of an innate nature to a given predetermined set...

You have a point. Many Cals do seem to think we all believe the 'foresight faith' view and few SEEM to know of the corporate view of election. But once that is explained I don't believe they have to accept it in order to understand it.