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Define the word "few" and you will see that is not an unfair assessment. Plus, have you explained why you would be ok with Jesus using the word 'few' in regard to those who are saved but not me? Is it just my disagreement with your doctrine that makes the word 'few' somehow unacceptable to...

Why do some choose Calvinism over Arminianism, or Premillinialism over Post, or KJVO over sanity? It's called free will and the drive to explain a truly free choice in this manner is really just a game of question begging because it assumes that a deterministic explaination is required. The...

From the link above: Critics of Arminianism tend to portray the Arminian view of election in this way: God elects to salvation those whom He knows will believe anyway, therefore election is basically meaningless. God's election is conditional on what human beings will choose to do: He just...

Do I need to link to all the times Calvinists have used this verse to support your doctrine? Do you deny that it does support your views? Why are you okay with Jesus saying "few" in reference to those elected, but not me? I noticed that you like to make general accusations without any...

Because they chose not to. That would assume the deterministic premise that is up for debate. You know, the premise which believes all human choices are determined by some God given 'quality' denying any since of freedom or autonomy, thus begging the question of the debate once again. Same...

And anyone wanting the CORRECT view of election IN SCRIPTURE should read here: http://www.schooleyfiles.com/2006/10/arminian-perspective-on-election-gods.html

Explain to me how my accusation of God preselecting a relatively few number of people to be saved is a personal attack upon you? Especially considering the fact that even Calvinists quote passages such as "many are called but FEW are chosen" in defense of their views? I explained the...

Neither am I, obviously, but that is not the point...obviously. :) So a group as a whole might be elected while certain individuals within that group were not actually saved, right? Like when God elects to graft in the Gentiles yet not all are saved. I'm not sure how you think that addresses...

Icon, go back and re-read it. You took the analogy about OUR view and applied it to yours thus totally missing the point. This thread was suppose to be about the individualization of the doctrine of election in the Western versus Eastern traditions and instead has once again resorted to...

Here is the why Calvinists get so offended by the "preselected few" comment: Look at it this way. Suppose there are 1000 people on a boat that you knew was sinking due to their neglect and irresponsibility. Suppose you take a big raft that can hold all 1000 of them and you go to them and tell...

Again, you reveal you lack of understanding for the dogma you so vehemently disagree. The idea that God elects an individual based upon a particular 'quality' is not an accurate representation of our belief. Actually, both camps believe salvation is conditional. Your view believes ELECTION is...

Ad Hominem is a personal attack against the debater, not a factually based claim about ones actual belief. Look, there is approximately 30% of the current population who claims to be Christian, and that percentage is higher now than throughout most of human history. You and I would both...

If you want to provide a link to them then I may take the time to respond, but again we are talking about THIS thread... Where did you ask this repeatedly? Did you ask me? My point was that we ONLY have a skewed historical record of Pelagius since his actual works were all destroyed...

The difference is only about WHO does the limiting. We both must willingly admit that a relative FEW will be saved and from a Calvinistic perspective the obvious reason for that is due to God's choice to effectually save a select few, whereas in our view the limiting is done by those who "trade...

Can you quote the scriptures (and maybe reference scholars) that support this view?

I don't understand why Calvinists take issue with this. Even scripture says, "narrow is the way and FEW are those who find it." Regardless of what 'camp' you are in you have to admit that a RELATIVE FEW will be saved compared to those who die in their unbelief. So, while the number of those...

At the risk of oversimplifying the various views of scholars throughout the years allow me to summarize the two most basic approaches to this controversial doctrine: From the time of Augustine, followed by the popularity of Calvin's teachings, Western Christianity has tended to interpret the...

Why do you do that brother? Why do you make it personal by insinuating I have a 'character flaw?' Even if I do (which I have plenty to choose from, take your pick) this is not the forum nor the manner in which a brother in Christ should address such things. Stick with addressing the subject...

Well, its not happening in THIS thread and I'm not here to defend the posts of every non-Calvinists in every thread. I just know the tendency of some to lump, label and dismiss. I've taken issue with Van and other non-Cals on several issues over the years and if I come across something I...

So, because my short answer didn't fully expound on my view of each OT covenant it is deemed deficient??? Well, by that standard I suppose we can conclude that since your answer didn't discuss the Adamic Covenant it is also deficient. :rolleyes: You have failed to address the content of my...