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I'd be interested to hear one of the Calvinists who have posted here so far explain what you think the non-Calvinistic perspective of John 6 actually is. I've noticed that few seem to understand the 'Arminian' perspective of this passage and I'm just curious if you all have fully vetted your...

Arminians don't really believe unbelievers are resisting birth. They are resisting God's truth. "They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be"...born again. Being born of the Spirit is a irresistible outcome of one who humbles himself and believes in God's truth, so we too can...

Once again, you beg the question. Either soteriological dogma, if it is not true, would be the "carnal sense of justice." The biblical revelation of God's holy justice clearly teaches He doesn't even tempt men to sin. Your 'carnal sense of justice' suggests He not only causes the temptation...

expiation: [ < Latin expiare, < ex- ('out' - here used as an intensifier) + piare (to atone) < pius (devout)] to compensate, repay, make amends for, make up for. propitiation [ < Latin propitius (favorable, auspicious), < pro- (forward) + -pitius, (to eagerly volunteer or give of oneself) --...

Ok, what have we learned in this thread that we can all take home with us? Don't try to kill the mosquito off your wife's back with a bazooka! Thanks Icon, that made reading through all this worth it! :applause: Oh, and Zebra's are white...no wait, I mean black...no wait....never mind!!

The strongest points of one's argument are not typically reflected in the portion that his opponents address, but in the portions ignored.

The guy who has unapologetically and without qualification has said at least a dozen times, "God killed Jesus" now says the question of this OP was "poorly worded?" Really?!?

No, the question didn't assume anything. I asked IF that is your view or not. Clearly it is not your view, which is all I wanted to know. Thank you. I'll let Luke debate you now because I've spent the last year trying to get him to admit that is NOT the Calvinistic view. Me 2 :thumbsup: Can...

Some of them, yes. I agree with Richard Muller, C. Hodge, Dabney, Shedd and the like that "Calvin [and his opponents] believed and taught that Christ’s work made full and perfect satisfaction for all." Some Calvinists seem to think that if all is satisfied regarding the demands of...

Now, zrs6v4 and Archangel, Does God's active involvement to ensure the crucifixion prove that God takes the same type of active role to ensure all other kinds of evil (such as Dahmer molestation of children etc)? In other words, couldn't it be that God actively intervened to ensure the...

Another well stated response! :applause:

:thumbsup: Well stated.

I just read through this entire thread and I have a very simple solution. If you want to discuss this question with a rational, objective, and reasoned individuals from the Calvinistic perspective who will give you an answer that is more representative of actual Calvinistic scholars then you...

Scripture is not real clear on the matter of the exact time, but we do see in scripture two types of hardening, their characteristics and divine purposes: 1. Self-Hardening of the heart goes beyond the tragic obtuseness of our inherited condition in the Fall of man. Working on the fertile...

This question addresses the holiness of God in that some seem to believe that if they can biblically show that God actively brought about the crucifixion (an obviously great injustice) that somehow they have proven God has also actively brought about all evil (such as the molestation of children...

If one looks at the context of the entire passage it is clear that the term "draw" is used interchangeably with the word "enabled" in verse 65. One cannot come unless they have HEARD and these people (Israel) are "...ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never...

I know you directed your question to Cals, but I'd like to comment from "the other perspective." Given the historical context there are a select few from Israel ('the Remnant') that the Father gave to Christ so that He could train them as the foundation for His church (i.e. apostles...see...

I don't believe anyone asked, or even implied, for you to do otherwise. :thumbs:

Calvinism is just a historical label that has come to represent a particular soteriological view. It doesn't mean all "Calvinists" support or believe everything Calvin taught or did. Same is true of Arminianism. I believe the OP is much ado about nothing. Culture has changed and things like...

I agree. These attacks have gone both ways by both camps and you all know it is true. We all tend to notice the 'sins' of the 'other side' more than we notice our own, but I think objective observers can see it is a problem coming from both sides (and typically from the same individuals)...