Does God have a free will?

[Particular]

I'm looking for the passage that says all that man does is controlled by God. Bet you can't find it either.
MB

Job 12:7-10 “But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I'll just sit back and watch."

 

[MB]

Job 12:7-10 “But ask the beasts, and they will teach you; the birds of the heavens, and they will tell you; or the bushes of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of the Lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.

I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I'll just sit back and watch."

Very well here you go
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

There are 55 verses in scripture about dominion
The definition of Dominion is
1. Sovereign or supreme authority; the power of governing and controlling.
Dominion was given to Adam and Kings and people.
Jacob had dominion over his brother Esau
Gen 27:40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
MB

 

[Particular]

Very well here you go
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

There are 55 verses in scripture about dominion
The definition of Dominion is
1. Sovereign or supreme authority; the power of governing and controlling.
Dominion was given to Adam and Kings and people.
Jacob had dominion over his brother Esau
Gen 27:40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
MB

Do any say dominion over God, who cares for all his creation?

Matthew 6:26-32 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.

Luke 12:5-7 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell.Yes, I tell you, fear him! Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies?And not one of them is forgotten before God. Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Hebrews 1:3-4 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

MB, If you want man to have such dominion, do you want him to have dominion over God?

It seems you take dominion over plants and animals to mean you have dominion over God's will and over God. How does human dominion over plants and animals equal human will superceding God's will, MB?

 

[MB]

Do any say dominion over God, who cares for all his creation?

God does! Shouldn't you care as well. God has ultimate dominion this is true yet He doesn't control the dominion of man He allows man to make his own decisions. He allows man to choose Good or evil He always has. This alone put determinism out of the over all picture of things.
MB

 

[InTheLight]

Can a dog will to be a cat?

Well, I suppose I'm willing to listen to your expertise on the dog mind, but understand, it would be with considerable skepticism. For all I know, a dog might want to be a cat, or at least to have a similar wherewithal to chase it up its escape tree.

This particular Calvinist is taking his mind reading trick to the ultimate--reading the minds of animals!

 

[InTheLight]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Is this one of the crutches you have built for yourself so you can ignore what the Bible says?

I will try to explain to you what I mean.

When you say, "I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I just sit back and watch,"

you are asking for someone to defend an argument that no one has asserted. No one believes the Bible says that "God sits back and watches humans in control of their destiny." Yet you want someone to debate you on that point so you can "win" that argument.

When a person alleges a debate opponent sets forth a certain argument that was never stated in order to attack that argument, that is known as a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.

It happens so, so frequently on Baptist Board, more often by Calvinists than non-Cals, that I added it to my list of faulty arguments that Calvinists make. It's number 4 on the list. Here is the complete list:

#1. THE WORD IN THAT VERSE ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING ELSE
#2. THAT VERSE IS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT
#3. THAT VERSE WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE CLAIMING
#4. YOU BELIEVE THIS (insert strawman argument)
#5. YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE
#6 IT'S A MYSTERY.

In fact, your statement, "I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I just sit back and watch," is not an argument. It's not even a true statement so why should anyone respond to it?

I hope this explanation helps you.

 

[Particular]

God does! Shouldn't you care as well. God has ultimate dominion this is true yet He doesn't control the dominion of man He allows man to make his own decisions. He allows man to choose Good or evil He always has. This alone put determinism out of the over all picture of things.
MB

If God does not control man, the man is equal to or greater than God. Has God willfully made man equal with himself, MB? Or is man under the dominion of God?

 

[utilyan]

If God does not control man, the man is equal to or greater than God. Has God willfully made man equal with himself, MB? Or is man under the dominion of God?

"If God does not control man, the man is equal to or greater than God."

You perfectly describe a coward's view of power.

You would be giving us more equality with God. In fact under your theology God is the author of my entire message.

He has divinely ordained for me to tell you that you are wrong. Since God controls me completely you can only be arguing with God.

 

[MB]

If God does not control man, the man is equal to or greater than God.

Not true at all. God has allowed men to control there own destiny by giving them dominion. Obviously you deny this and God's word

Has God willfully made man equal with himself, MB?

No.

Or is man under the dominion of God?

Your in denial of the Bible. What does scripture say? It says God gave men dominion over all the Earth.
Where does scripture say God is in control of every aspect of men's lives?.
MB

 

[Particular]

"If God does not control man, the man is equal to or greater than God."

You perfectly describe a coward's view of power.

You would be giving us more equality with God. In fact under your theology God is the author of my entire message.

He has divinely ordained for me to tell you that you are wrong. Since God controls me completely you can only be arguing with God.

No I didn't. I describe God's Sovereign direction over his creation.
When Baalam wanted to curse the Israelites because he would get paid, God said no. No matter what Balaam tried, he could not because God would not allow it.
Do you imagine Balaam is an anomaly? Does God not direct every aspect of His creation?

 

[Particular]

Not true at all. God has allowed men to control there own destiny by giving them dominion. Obviously you deny this and God's word


No.


Your in denial of the Bible. What does scripture say? It says God gave men dominion over all the Earth.
Where does scripture say God is in control of every aspect of men's lives?.
MB

Man has the ability to domesticate animals and plants. This, in no way, means that man has the ability to thwart God's will. If that were so, then man would have dominion over God. But, you correctly declare that man does not have dominion over God. God has dominion over man. When God raised up Pharoah and hardened his heart, it is because God does as he so wills. When God raised up the Chaldeans to crush Judah, it is because God does as He so wills. When God allowed Satan to enter Judas, it is because God does as He so wills. Even your fight against God's reign over every breath you take is allowed by God's Sovereign decree. Not one thing happens outside of the Creator giving allowance so that his perfect will shall be accomplished.

 

[Particular]

I will try to explain to you what I mean.

When you say, "I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I just sit back and watch,"

you are asking for someone to defend an argument that no one has asserted. No one believes the Bible says that "God sits back and watches humans in control of their destiny." Yet you want someone to debate you on that point so you can "win" that argument.

When a person alleges a debate opponent sets forth a certain argument that was never stated in order to attack that argument, that is known as a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.

It happens so, so frequently on Baptist Board, more often by Calvinists than non-Cals, that I added it to my list of faulty arguments that Calvinists make. It's number 4 on the list. Here is the complete list:

#1. THE WORD IN THAT VERSE ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING ELSE
#2. THAT VERSE IS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT
#3. THAT VERSE WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE CLAIMING
#4. YOU BELIEVE THIS (insert strawman argument)
#5. YOU ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE
#6 IT'S A MYSTERY.

In fact, your statement, "I'm looking for the passage where God says "Humans control their own destiny. I just sit back and watch," is not an argument. It's not even a true statement so why should anyone respond to it?

I hope this explanation helps you.

It is a direct question to those (you) who are teaching that human will is not harnessed by God's authoritative will, but is left to freely do whatever it chooses to do.

Unless you have a definition of free will that is conditional and isn't truly free. Is that the case? Is the human will only "sort of" free, yet God can reign it in at any time? Perhaps humans are like the dog in a leash where the owner lets out enough rope so as to make the dog think that it is free? Or is it like the free range cattle that gets corraled whenever the rancher decides it's time to round them up?

 

[Revmitchell]

It is a direct question to those (you) who are teaching that human will is not harnessed by God's authoritative will, but is left to freely do whatever it chooses to do.

Please show a post that claimed what you have posted here.

 

[Particular]

Please show a post that claimed what you have posted here.

Please show a post where the actual definition of free will is presented.

 

[Revmitchell]

Please show a post where the actual definition of free will is presented.

So as usual you have no real response because your characterization is nothing but a strawman and you know it.

 

[Particular]

So as usual you have no real response because your characterization is nothing but a strawman and you know it.

I have been addressing the claim that men are free to choose whatever they wish (free will). Is that not the definition of free will? If not, how do you define free will?

 

[Revmitchell]

I have been addressing the claim that men are free to choose whatever they wish (free will). Is that not the definition of free will? If not, how do you define free will?

I am still waiting for you to show us a post making that claim as you laid it out. Where is the post?

 

[Particular]

I am still waiting for you to show us a post making that claim as you laid it out. Where is the post?

Every free will post claims what I laid out.
Your turn.

 

[Particular]

What is the definition of "free will" as defined by the free will advocates on this site?

 

[MB]

Man has the ability to domesticate animals and plants. This, in no way, means that man has the ability to thwart God's will. If that were so, then man would have dominion over God. But, you correctly declare that man does not have dominion over God. God has dominion over man. When God raised up Pharoah and hardened his heart, it is because God does as he so wills. When God raised up the Chaldeans to crush Judah, it is because God does as He so wills. When God allowed Satan to enter Judas, it is because God does as He so wills. Even your fight against God's reign over every breath you take is allowed by God's Sovereign decree. Not one thing happens outside of the Creator giving allowance so that his perfect will shall be accomplished.

Agreed God allows and disallows
MB